Until you sit in my seat after 20 years of fire service, making decisions on where to send your firefighters based on their experience levels, you will then realize decisions have trade offs and sometimes Mother Nature over rules you. All together this was the absolute worse place to have a fire at almost the worst time, save it was lucky to not have been a few weeks earlier. I fully understand the financial difficulties of the NPS and with firefighters abroad. Im sorry but that initial fire management at the outset was atrocious. Yes government at all levels needs to be held accountable; otherwise we regress back into the Dark Ages. Collaboration, open thinking and creativeness are key. A mandatory evacuation should have been issued, at the latest, Monday morning, with reverse 911 calls, as well as loudspeaker equipped vehicles. Whether a tornado, hurricane or natural disaster, it weighs on your psyche. .. bless you all! As my husband was carrying things to the car at 5:00PM, a white SUV came by. I parked truck right beside a big mound of rip rap that Bob had dumped for lining the ditches on sides of our neighborhood roads, which arent through roads. Tough questions like, Why did it take so long for community leaders to activate burn bans in spite of the extreme drought conditions, fuel loads, number of arson fires and the regional outbreak of fires, the social nature of this crime, and other related events. WTF were they letting the planes in Chattanooga sit idle? At least that is my understanding. By being so quick to lynch people we have created a fear of decision-making and a paralysis of critical thinking. Will the NPS Fire Management leadership at the Regional, NIFC and Washington DC levels admit to some very poor policy and decision making problems associated with the Chimney Top 2 disaster? Fire kills 1, destroys businesses in downtown Gatlinburg, Tenn Remembering the Gatlinburg Wildfires five years later - WBRC When the fire started on Chimney Tops I thought surely the National Park Service would take necessary steps to put it out quickly because of the sure danger of it spreading. level, in advance of this disaster had occured. Damage was estimated at. The remains of a business in Gatlinburg, Tenn., smolder on Nov. 29, after a devastating wildfire damaged or destroyed more than 2,000 buildings and killed at least 14 people. I heard a comment that people have the use common sense. @wvlt pic.twitter.com/P7roVBCq8B. Id just like to ask folks to think about If prior experience of fires in the region may have betrayed fire managers this time. Which is why human history keeps repeating itself over and over. Are Gatlinburg fires common? A list of big fires in the area [2022] There may be some validity in the DA doing that, but it sure calls their integrity into question. Experience must be coupled with training and planning based on forecasted possibilities and even un-forecasted what ifs. The lines between reality and virtual reality or fake reality are so blurred. And no doubt books both factual and not on this event. On Monday, December 5, the Incident Management Team (IMT) on the Chimney Tops 2 Fire that burned from Great Smoky Mountains National Park (GRSM) into the Gatlinburg area reported that it has . They were flying water drops on Sunday with the equipment available (National Guard choppers). Travelers are urged to avoid the area at this time. You are aware that Bill Gabbert the Editor of Wildfire Today spent a large part of his fire carrier with the Park Service where I believe he was served on a nationwide Type I IMT. Flies north of fire (s) in TN. with a notice that evacuation is imminent would have been prudent. Wildfire Today covered engines being shipped from CA. I am positive that for anyone who gives of themselves to protect and serve will forever be haunted by that far more than anyone of us can expect to hold them accountable by lynching. Branson is built into the mountainous forests of south-central Missouri, is a resort town, and a retirement community and entertainment venue. He should loose his job and be prosecuted for this mess he created. The Incident Management Teams at Tellico, Rock Mountain and Joyce Kilmer/Slickrock fires had dead hemlocks near the trials knocked down (dynamite, cutting, other means theyre still working on it along the AT). Thank all of you. Resources = $$$=taxes. There will be legal repercussions because of incompetence. Massive Wildfire Engulfs Tennessee Resort Towns, Kills 3 The Bob Stanton that has been commenting on this thread is NOT the former director of the NPS. China Bazaar, Puckers Sports Grill, Gifts of Gatlinburg, and Caf 420 were all deemed a complete loss. I wish the Feds had kept the case instead of handing it off to the local DA. Jim Renfro, the air quality specialist for GRSM, said the strongest wind gust recorded at Cove Mountain was 87 mph at 9 p.m. on Monday. Wednesday, November 23, the day the fire started. Nearly five years. The fire resulted in the deaths of 14 people and more than $500 million in damage, with firefighting costs of more than $7 million. We were wearing bandanas wrapped around our faces at this point. This would help the owners defray some costs so they can rebuild. The Gatlinburg ByPass is also closed. Why did they wait until Monday to do a voluntary a evacuation or were the city father is involved in the decision not to panic the thousands and thousands of people still there for the Thanksgiving holiday. They felt this was an attempt to start a forest fire and it was reported to officials. GATLINBURG, Tenn. (WVLT) - Four downtown Gatlinburg businesses are picking up the pieces after a fire Sunday morning destroyed their building. I spent two weeks in the area after the fire to inspect my property and ascertain where my wife and I would go from there. Businesses affected by the fire include Puckers Sports Bar, China Bazaar, Cafe 420, and Gifts of Gatlinburg, according to WVLT News crews on the scene. However, an event such as the Gatlinburg fires undoubtedly leads to a can of worms that some folks would rather just sweep under the rug. When did Gatlinburg burn . I visited Gatlinburg on a trip to Asheville NC, in 1980. It seems to me that the extreme wind was as unprecedented as the drought and the low stream levels. To successfully allow a fire to burn for a long period of time requires VERY skilled personnel and luck. I would recommend reviewing Wildfire Todays post titled: NPS releases information about the Chimneys Tops Fire 2 as well as the post Analysis of wind, vegetation, and air tankers before the fire burned into Gatlinburg. It is the duty of the people and Congress to maintain and voice our concerns and opinions to where check and balances work. We probably wont want to attribute 14 deaths to a non-native insect infestation, but in the end, can we say it exacerbated the situation? So they were more concerned about NPS structures than our homes and lives? Enter your email address to subscribe and receive notifications of new articles by email. All without the but why reflection, cause and effect analysis, drill down technique and the inter-relationship effect. But it is good that you ask questions, and you should expect answers and a demonstration of learning, but you have to give that opportunity, just as you would want. Person killed in downtown Gatlinburg fire identified Thank you for this excellent synopsis. I told Stanton I wanted him to drive our truck up to top of mountain behind house to get it away from house and out from under so many trees. You certainly got it right when you said that sometimes government does not listen and it takes a loud voice. However, to expect her to honor the NPS is inappropriate considering reality and her circumstances. Thus, private, State, or other agencies get left holding the bag, as it were. The cause of the fire remains under investigation. Not just putting out the fires, but restoring the forest and trails afterward. It is so much easier to sit on the outside, pass judgement and sentencing in the name of accountability than it is to be involved in the event of vulnerability in action. I am rebuilding the home that was burned to the ground possibly due to negligence by local fire officials like many of Lincolns Union generals, did not have the will to fight . Most of those resources were involved in those ongoing fires and unavailable for immediate response to a small fire, when it was still small. At any rate, I have not heard any knowledgeable person say acquiring resources during those first five days was a major difficulty. That evening, GSM park officials tweeted that a 1.5 acre fire (Chimney Tops 2 fire) was burning in a steep location around the Chimneys. 6 to the intersection at Reagen Drive reopened Monday afternoon after being closed Sunday morning, according to a release. Would be interesting to dig down to find the ash line (which is probably illegal on federal lands). A similar fire occurred on English Mountain. When the simple laws of fire physics and chemistry correctly combine, fuel, heat, oxygen, and in the wildland fire arena available fuels, topography and ideal fire weather conditions mix in perfect alignment plus given adequate TIME, a-bine unattended campfire, an arsonists match, or a slowly backing down-slope surface fire in leaf litter during a record setting drought will ultimately result in a disastrous conflagration. The governor needs to hear that, as well. We spent Thanksgiving there with our family, who left on Sunday. Also, for the last several decades, NPS policies have allowed these excessive fuels to build. I always come back to that groupthink mentality, the ladder of inference, the been there done that mode, the failure/fear to act, and thats how weve always done it thinking; all part of how our unconscious brain works without our conscious intervention and critical thinking skills. His parents died in the fire in Gatlinburg . GRSM posted Fire Information signs in the area explaining their monitoring strategy due to vertical cliffs, narrow rock ridges and steep drainages. The leadership tetrahedron if you will, the area where all the parts come together based on the past, the current, the potential and the possible. My question to the Deputy Super: If the Chimney Tops Fire 2 of Nov 23rd to 28th, 2016 could not have been extinguished before the winds came; and there was plenty of time to act before the winds came; then how come GSMNP fire crews apparently extinguished the first Chimney Tops Fire of Nov 12/13th, 2016? If you take a hands off approach with minimal management and indirectly Play God look out. Not clouding the issues with the intent to take down a person. When you have an active, non controlled fire, an area in exceptional drought, late fall vegetative conditions, and southerly winds of 40 to 60 MPH forecasted, you do not need to be a nuclear physicist to realize the potential (probability) that a catastrophic fire event is right at your doorstep. But any land manager that expects to allow active spreading fire behavior for weeks or months is knowingly taking a risk that a wind event unpredictable weeks or months in advance will occur and change everything, sometimes with a very undesirable outcome. Thanks Henry. Your reply well done! My wife and I hiked to Alum Cave Bluffs Saturday, Nov. 26, while the fire was small up on the Chimneys. I was in my cabin on 28 November and barely made it out alive. I know its good and natural periodically to let forest fires burn, but under the extreme drought conditions in this area, I was uneasy that fires werent being put out. 1,000 feet of rise / 0.2 mile (1,056 feet) is a slope of 94.7%, not 77%. Millions of dollars will be spent recovering and mitigating the after effects of this human caused and exasperated wildfire. Cleanup continued Tuesday, with crews piling up rubble near Traffic Light 6 on the Gatlinburg Pkwy. Another example from my own experience which has been rocked by bias and blatant failure to receive appropriate support and assistance when asked for; causing issues to occur that were later simply blown way out of proportion with conspired lies in order to protect and cover up the real underlying issues and people. Then the wind comes!!! The further fire growth part was more accurate than they realized at the time. I understand the excellent point made in the article that history in the Smokies area would expect less of a problem than out West. FEMA did say they would give us a low interest rate loan, we dont want a loan we worked hard and paid it off and dont want to go in debt to rebuild! Who knows what the climate will bring next year. All rights reserved. It is a sad state of affairs, the loss of life was quite avoidable. This Park Ranger was appointed to this position in December 2014 and he took office in February 2015, so in a span of one year and nine months he managed to let the place burn and we have owned property there for 32 years and nothing remotely like this has ever happened. Would it be wise to implement backfire with such strong winds forecasted on top of exceptional drought and fuels? The body of an unidentified person was found amid the rubble of a downtown section of buildings that. This should be placed firmly on the shoulders of the Park Service, Cassius Cash, Superintendent and the City and County. One person was found dead Sunday. Citing the steep terrain and the safety of firefighters, fire managers at Great Smoky Mountains National Park (GRSM) decided not to take direct action on the fire which would entail constructing fireline along the edge of the fire to remove the fuel that allows it to spread. For folks afflicted by this tragedy, emotions running high should be expected; and it is understandable for Kelly Morgan to be upset. Down hemlocks are mostly just gone. While my husband tried to rake the leaves away more than once, they blew right back in. Sometimes we win and sometimes we lose. Thats totally untrue. Fires in the Great. Defense attorney Gregory P. Isaacs said the state can't prove that the horseplay of the boys, ages 17 and 15, sparked a fire in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park that caused the deadly . It now seems obvious that no housing development should have only road in and out. GSMNP Facebook has pulled comments, photos, and replies as well in regard to the 14th fire. It was so blatant and irresponsible of the media station to broadcast in this manner especially under the current circumstances. Finding out about the fire has hurt me almost as much as it did the locals. Jordans comments on the video indicates that their management was taking care to show how they were not responsible. I thought if we were have to leave we could take both vehicles to our friends house to sit out the night. We drove west down the parkway. Did the 14th fire discreetly burn in the duff amid rock cervices? Do we need to learn from it. This should not be a time to blame and inflame, but to think and act wisely. SOURCE Like this: Loading. He also raked as many leaves as he could from around our cabin. I learned that it is extremely difficult to manage, rather than suppress, a wildland fire for an extended period of time. She may have chosen poor timing, and perhaps not the best method of tackling the issues, but nonetheless we need to start asking the tough questions without being so offended and then take a good hard look at the issues, and how they can be resolved. Shelter locations could have been announced, especially encouraging people to take action during the daylight hours that day so that escaping in total darkness during an inferno of fire or not having the means to do so would not be forced on people, and they could make arrangements for their own safety. If youve ever been in an incident management role you understand often having made a good decision given the best information available at the time you dont get the outcome you want. The earlier fire on the hill was named Chimney Tops hence the name Chimney Tops 2 for the new blaze. I hounded the Knox News editor for a followup article around Dec. 19. Just like the Mayor of Amity in Jaws, they didnt want the tourists to see this much reality. The massive Gatlinburg wildfires, which began in November, caused the deaths of 14 people, injured 175 others and destroyed homes and towns all around eastern Tennessee. Would it not be more beneficial to hold accountability by insuring that analysis of cause and effect and learning take place; that change is done where change is needed? NO managing wildfire is much more complex, especially in a multiple fire drought driven incident like managers were dealing with on this incident. I told him there wasnt when I got there at 5 oclock but I could not even see driveways on the way up. That seems to be confirmation that the fire had crossed 441 early in the day. Since November 29 it has rained about every 2 to 3 daysin the Gatlinburg area. I just assumed that others would be leaving Gatlinburg out of concerns similar to mine. Its incredulous that evacuation didnt go out then. We have turned in a claim but still no word on a settlement. So who would you blame the people that died, wildlife and homeowners. Im sure there will be lots of finger pointing, name calling pushing for blame and then legal actions. While I had the privilege is having dinner with the NPS director at a prescribed fire conference I am just a retired rx fire practitioner. As a citizen with a firefighting background, I knew days ahead of time that high mountain winds were expected in the Eastern TN/NC Mountains, coupling that with the extreme drought conditions and the knowledge of the massive amount of ground fuel available in the forest based on being in the forest regularly even just days prior, outside observing the conditions and the terrain. Accountability is important and paying the price for our decisions is too. wasnt blocked off since Mynatt Park was told to evacuate at 5:17. We listened to local TV news at home which reported voluntary evacuations for Mynatt Park after fire was reported in the Twin Creeks area. Firefighting resources assigned to the fire include 25 hand crews, 61 engines, 6 helicopters, and 2 dozers, for a total 780 personnel. We need a growing pool of resources who have gained knowledge and wisdom hat can be applied to future events, not to lessen the pool by throwing out those who failed but are not a failure. It is important to look at many facets, evidence and root cause studies so that the issues can be resolved. By the way, I havent seen any local media covering much for the victims since the coverage with Jerry and the pursuit of compensation. I knew him when he was at Indiana Dunes National Lake Shore. Before the forest fires in the southeast this fall, I didnt know very much about wildfire fighting management (other than a bit from a mountain rescue EMT friend in Colorado and a friend that helps with prescribed burns for Georgia Conservancy). The next morning, the morning of 28th, I took boys to school and went to a dr. appointment in Sevierville. Special interest groups and other self serving human beings with other priorities cut budgets. Drought, fall winds, fuel moistures that havent recovered in months, what part of this disaster was a surprise. Politics, as we know can cloud even a clear sunny day!!! Years ago, the NPS wasnt maintaining the churches in Cades Cove of the Smokies. It was about 11:30AM when we got to downtown Gatlinburg, where I took photos of the heavy on the Parkway in town. And we were lucky. Standing dead hemlock burned up their trunks, to as high as 50 feet on one specimen I saw. A safefy plan for people in the event of the many natural threats, would have to be determined ahead of time though because that level of decision-making rarely occurs in the face of imminent danger. There isn't one specific cause behind the fires, Boyd said. That said, we are now in the rebuild mode. Before we got in the car, we each took photos of the approaching fire with our cell phones. Blame, no. Digression from Comment Thread I saw Wyoming and Colorado engines being demobalized after containment. Thats exactly what I plan on doing and recording the calls so that if they dont take action they an explain to the public why after getting all of these calls with people pleading for them to take action. He asked them if they could give us an update on the fire and they said no. As a former FF, their claim that they could have never put it out if they tried from day one is BS. Within a few days or week prior to this deadly fire I heard a local major Knoxville radio station broadcasting a satire bashing HRC, Obama, the Federal Government among a few other controversial things, and how the revolution has begun including the incitement of burning down the place, this Knoxville radio station followed this rant with songs whose lyrics tough-ted and instructed the starting of fires. By the end of the day on Sunday the fire had burned approximately 35 acres, according to Ms. Schroer and the results from a mapping flight (see the 3-D mapabove). How did I know that? Just wondering was it God who drastically cut the federal budgets for NPS, Wildland firefighters and other resources or was that Congress? Sweeney, to be honest weve never experienced circumstances quite like this. I thanked her, hung up and told Stanton to go load Ladys kennel. Early in the afternoon we began to see large crewcab pickup trucks driving past our home. The cause of the fire has still not been determined. That said, it is always easier for those outside of the forest to see the big picture then those who are standing inside the trees down on the forest floor. At the official Gatlinburg weather station recognized by the NWS 0.73 inch was recorded on Tuesday. Fire Summary. Two Hawaii police departments are making moves to beef up incentives as recruiting efforts grow more competitive. The fire burned 38,000 acres of state managed conservation areas and private timber lands. When maintenance employees with GRSM drove past the Chimney Tops 2 Fire early Mondaymorning they saw that the intensity and rate of spread of the fire had increased dramatically. The steepness here is epic, the only way out of valleys this steep is straight down or up, your lucky not to hit a waterfall. I think this is more often than not the case. From an all hazards POV large scale fire should have been recognized long before any drought conditions. The first thing you think is, Is this real?, said Tyler Neddo, a longtime employee of Caf 420. The fire ballooned to more than 17,000 acres when winds stronger than 80 miles per hour carried the fire down the mountain and through Gatlinburg and parts of Pigeon Forge Nov. 28. In my eyes, TEMA should have taken control of the situation and ordered evacuations before sunset. Very good pictures! We, the public, have to be activists for our own safety, the very safety that public officials claim to protect. Join our group. Gatlinburg businesses look to rebuild after massive fire